This episode is a special one dedicated to the 2024 Convo By Design Icon Registry inductees. This inaugural class of inductees features a diverse group of extraordinary creatives. If you have been listening to the special episodes that air the third Thursday of each month, you’ve heard just what makes these people so extraordinary at what they do. This was the first year of the program and it is scheduled to run well into the future.
This idea for a Hall of Fame was conceived quite some time ago, but I struggled with a touch of imposter syndrome. I thought, who am I to bestow an honor like this on these people. The best in the business today and then a few things happened. The first was the 10-year anniversary party which was held in May of 2023. I was surrounded by so many friends, previous guests of the show, industry partners, all who listen to the show on a weekly basis and I heard stories about how these conversations have helped them in their careers, especially through the pandemic and now, when it feels like life has become a series of crisis management events, one after another. To showcase those who have figured it out and sharing how they did it, then celebrating their accomplishments. It just felt like a good time to start this project. This is not a list by which I expect anything in return. There is no ask for promotion or social media shares. This is just my way of celebrating these folks. But, there are criteria. These individuals have all been on the show, they are extraordinary at what they do by any and all standards and finally, the make our industry better, better than they found it. That is a big one, you will find that each of these amazing creatives have produced exceptional work, many do, but not all give back. Everyone here has, in exceptional ways. And you’re going to hear a bit from each. By the way, the entire episodes are available and you can check the links in the show notes to listen to each on. We’re going to get to that, right after this.
2024 Convo By Design Icon Registry Inductees:
January – Bunny Williams.
February – Cara Woodhouse.
March – Jean Brownhill.
April – Alex Papachristidis.
May – Susan Ferrier.
June – Dakota Jackson.
July – Brigette Romanek.
August – Jaime Bush
September – Timothy Corrigan.
October – Kyle Bunting.
November – Brian Pinkett.
December – Brownstone Boys.
What a great look back and these incredible people. I’m grateful and thankful that they all took the time to share their gifts, here, with us. Each inductee will be receiving, in addition to my eternal gratitude, a hand turned piece to commemorate their induction. Crafted by yours truly through JMC Studio. They have all been fabricated from local materials here in Tulsa, including wood from an old white oak that fell during the derecho in 2023. Thank you again to each for your contributions to our industry and the clients you serve. Thank you to my partner sponsors for your continued support, ThermaSol, Pacific Sales, Monogram, TimberTech and Design Hardware. Amazing companies who are dedicated to the success of the specifiers who craft and construct some of the worlds greatest structures. And thank you for listening to the show, downloading episodes and sharing them with your colleagues, friends and clients. Please keep those emails coming with show and guest suggestions. Until next week, be well and take today first. -CXD
This podcast, started in 2013, now 11 years running. I wanted to break from the usual conversations to share some thoughts on gratitude and optimism. To share some updates and thank those who have participated in this exceptional run.
The production of this episode coincides with Thanksgiving, intentionally. This is the time of year when most design professionals and clients alike tend to shut things down for the year. Kids come home from school for the Winter break, family comes to visit, we buy gifts for loved ones, attend holiday parties and I like to think that I am not alone in looking at the past year reflectively while looking to the new year with renewed optimism. 2024 was a fantastic year with regard to the show. Convo By Design has hit a higher gear this year. Going back to by background in motorsports, that means we have opened up new opportunities and are running faster and harder than ever before. The post-pandemic world is different that it was prior. Some issues have emerged this year that I find disturbing. Natural disasters, climate change, weather patterns have all accelerated. It isn’t really about if people believe or remain climate change deniers. Ignore these changes at your peril. I experienced something in 2023 that forever changed the way I feel about climate changes. Father’s Day, 2023, there was a straight line wind event in Tulsa. 100 mile per hour winds for 30-minutes. You can imagine the destruction. My family was fine, but others were not as fortunate. As I write this, a series of hurricanes passed through the southeast and the devastation was tremendous. We are also saw a dock workers strike, a fierce election season which will once again separate families and end friendships. And as I say this, I cannot help but feel optimistic for the year to come. Why? I’ll tell you, rights after this.
Why the optimism? First, I have been incredibly fortunate. I have my family, my health, you… yes you, I am so thankful that you listen, even happier when you send an email to let me know you like the show, disagree with something I said or have a guest suggestion. I also have a roster of incredible partner sponsors. Patrick, Nick, Mitch, Rachael and Jari from ThermaSol. Dan, Jay, Sam from TimberTech. Shaun and Verzine from Pacific Sales as well as the amazing team at Monogram. Michele, Avi, Stassi and Jaime from Design Hardware. Then there are the incredible creatives who share their stories and their work with us, you and me every week on the show.
2024 has brought some new endeavors, exciting changes and portends great things to come. But tread cautiously. I’ll get to that in a moment. First, the new developments. I learned early on in my radio career that the only thing you can really count on is change. The Telecom Act of 1996 changed so much, for me…and you. Most of the people I speak with these days don’t listen to the radio, and that is unfortunate for radio, but not for all of the incredible audio programming that we have available. If there was no Telecommunications Act of 1996, radio stations would probably still be in the hands of individual owners instead of the 10 groups that almost every American radio station. When I was a teenager, growing up in the Valley. I listened to KLOS, KMET, KNAC and KROQ. Play a song for me and I can tell you about how old I was and what I was doing when it was popular. KMET and KLOS created a love for Guns & Roses, Motley Crue, Giant, Scorpions and Van Halen, KNAC sharpened the rock edge with Metallica, Ozzy, Anthrax and Megadeth. Then KROQ, my beloved KROQ. The Smiths, The Cure, Depeche Mode, Roxy Music, The Nails who by the way introduced me to the name , Kamala, “who couldn’t sing but kept the beat and kept it strong.” 88 Lines About 44 Women, check it out. The point is, independent radio groups kept things fresh and interesting. They introduced me to new artists to fall in love with. Radio today is a shadow of its former self. The artists you hear today aren’t broken by radio but through individuals on social media. I compare this to the design industry because there is a very similar pattern being established. There was a time for those of us who loved design and architecture, a time when if you wanted to see what designers were making a splash, you turned to the trade publications. The magazines who provided beautiful glossy images, contributors who were actually journalists, writers who could craft a story and explain the language of architecture and design. Those days too have sailed by because most of us don’t subscribe to magazines anymore. That makes me sad because I still love magazines. They just don’t love me back. And I know there are some of you listening who still subscribe to and read magazines, but you are in the minority and at some point, this too will cease. Case in point. If you like music, and who doesn’t, when was the last time you bought an album? Not a song, an entire record? Fine, CD, digital download or actual vinyl, the whole record? Swifties, no need to email me, you’re different, I get it. This comparison makes for an interesting comparison between musicians and designers & architects. both produce new work that is reflective of broader societal issues. If radio was still the boss, you would not get exposure to new artists except those the industry wanted you to hear. Same goes for designers. To be frank with you, if radio were still the boss, podcasts would all be controlled by the existing radio groups. And, if the shelter trade publications were still as popular as they once were, Convo By Design would probably never have happened. So, in a strange way, I’m grateful for that too.
I mention this because as you are listening to this episode of the show, we recently completed the 2024 installment of the WestEdge Design Fair, a show I have been associated with since 2015. I have produced the programming o the main stage since 2017 and this year brought new voices along with well recognized creatives in design and architecture. Along with the new and established voices, we are talking about relevant issues that are affecting everyone in the shelter space, residential, commercial, design, architecture, manufacturing specifying, everyone and all of it. Concepts like; What’s Next which addresses what many can expect in 2025 with respect to politics, workforce, shipping, receiving, tariffs and other cost issues. Offline Vs. Reconnected, a conversation about the value, healthand emotional benefits of cutting cords in the design itself, why and how for best effect. Authenticity Vs. Dupes, cancel culture taught us that there are ramifications for bad actions and bad actors yet theft, specifically idea theft, creative theft goes unpunished, or has thus-far. But that’s changing, those with sticky fingers beware. Vengance is coming. Have heard about the kerfuffle between the Donals Judd Foundationand Kim Kardashian and Clements Design. This is a huge deal concerning trade dress, intellectual property and trademark infringement. A big deal and not the only issue out there. How about Gifford V. Sheil. Another high profile copyright and trade dress infringement as it relates to content and social media. This one is really interesting. It revolves around …
We are covering a number of new ideas that warrant exploration. If you were not able to join us this year, fear not, every panel has been recorded as it has since 2018 and you will be able to listen in beginning in January with a limited series called WestEdge Wednesday where you will hear one of the 2024 conversations. I want to share something else pretty special with you. Something that will make your heart sing if you love extraordinary design talent, right after this.
2024 brought the inaugural year of the Convo By Design Icon Registry, a hall of fame showcasing some of the most extraordinary guests since the show started in 2013. The icons of 2024 include; Bunny Williams, Cara Woodhouse, Jean Brownhill, Alex Papachristidis, Susan Ferrier, Dakota Jackson, Brigett Romanek, Tim Corrigan, Kyle Bunting, Brian Pinkett, Jamie Bush, and I’m spilling the tea a bit, but December’s addition will be the Brownstone Boys. You will hear that episode in a few weeks. Third Thursday of every month will be the induction of a new icon. This is a hall of fame, not a massive click-bait list of dozens of creatives, these individuals have been selected for a few reasons that include their appearance on the show, their body of work, a willingness to give back to the industry and the manner in which they created their design business. All of these individuals have left an indelible mark on the world, leaving it better than they found it. Make sure you are listening to the 2025 class inductions, there are some very special people. Each icon, in addition to their induction episode, will be receiving a custom made and hand turned piece from JMC Studio. You can see what those look like on Instagram @convoXdesign, with an “x”. Final thoughts, right after this.
2025 is going to be an exceptional year, I can feel it. Been vibing with the universe and I can feel everything beginning to align. It feels different because, as I stated at the beginning of this episode, there are external forces at work that have made and continue to make life more complicated that it once was. I think that designers are futurists who make life better through their architecture and design. That talent is what will be addressing the climate change issues, costs of goods, specification and lifestyle. We adapt, we evolve, we change in response to the external forces that affect the manner in which we live, love and exist. I’m excited about the year to come and that joy comes form an appreciation for what is and acceptance of what was. That’s gratitude. I’m grateful and thankful for everyone who has come on the show this year, I’m thankful for my partner sponsors, TimberTech, ThermaSol, Design Hardware, Pacific Sales and Monogram. Please keep those guest suggestions and show ideas coming, convo by design at Outlook dot com and on instagram, @convoXDesign with an “X”.
Until next week, be well, take today first and Happy Thanksgiving. – Convo By Design
This is the Convo By Design Icon Registry for October 2024 and it is an absolute joy for me to talk about this creative with reverence, respect and friendship. The October 2024 Convo By Design Icon Registry inductee is the incomparable, Kyle Bunting.
Kyle and I have known each other for a while and he has appeared on the podcast four times I think. And in all different ways, And he almost always brought friends. Not that he needed them, but Kyle is what you can call a consummate professional and chronic collaborator. He can’t help himself, and why should he?
Collaboration between manufacturer, designer, architect, GC, client, trades, showroom are all critically important for the success of the project. Collaboration takes many forms and unfortunately, sometimes, no form at all. In all my experience, not just in the built and designed space, but in every aspect of business, collaboration is mission critical. Without collaboration, there is no communication, nor partnership, nor exceeding goals, can’t be done for one very simple reason; Design projects, residential or commercial builds are all done using multiple partners and if those partners aren’t working collaboratively, mistakes are made, miscommunications happen and it generally leads to additional issues. Kyle Bunting os one of the most highly-skilled collaborators I know. He also has created an exceptional brand and a wonderful product.
It is my privilege to induct Kyle into the Convo By Design Icon Registry, JMC Studio has crafted an original piece to commemorate this and it will be sent to Kyle shortly, check out Instagram if you wantto see it. As we do here, this is Kyle Bunting from a previous appearance on Convo By Design.
KB
Thank you, Kyle for taking the time and the willingness to share your story.Thank you for your constant willingness to bring others into the big tent and for creating such an exceptional product. Congratulations on your addition to the Convo By Design Icon Registry. Thank you for listening and subscribing to the show. Thank you to my partner sponsors Design Hardware, ThermaSol, TimberTech, Monogram and Pacific Sales. these are amazing partners all, they support the trade and I love sharing these amazing resources with you. Thanks again for listening, until next week, be well and take today first. – CXD
I’m Josh Cooperman and this is the September 2024 installment of the Convo By Design Icon Registry featuring another absolutely incredible creative who appeared on the show not once, but I think this gentleman has been on the show 4 times over the past 11 years in every way possible. He has been on a panel, featured in an individual interview, been part of The Showroom series. He’s incredible. This months inductee is an amazing talent a gentleman and a friend. Timothy Corrigan.
I met Tim for the first time, I believe it was 2017. I went to his Los Angeles offices and we spoke about so many things and that is the episode I wanted to share with you today as we induct Tim into the Convo By Design Icon Registry. Somethings you should know about Tim. First, he is one heck of a person. He is one of those people you feel like you’ve known your whole life from the moment you meet him. Second, he already had a stellar career before design in the advertising industry. He led international operations for Saatchi & Saatchi’s Bates Worldwide prior to opening his eponymous design firm in 1998. For reference, Bates Worldwide, in 1998, had billings in excess of $7.7B and operations in 70+ countries with 156+ offices.
One of the interesting things Tim and I talked about was the Bates Worldwide concept of the USP. Unique Selling Proposition. A concept you see offered everywhere but rarely understood. The idea is that wherever there is competition, one must find the differentiator, the thing that makes them stand out. Something that none else offers. That idea that competitively sets you apart. That others in the field don’t offer. There is far more to the concept but in a world where every designer is an “award winning” designer, Tim allows the work to override the accolades. The irony is not lost on me. To be talking about how it’s not about the accolades, while bestowing accolades, the point is that Ti has always understood his USP, he launched his firm knowing what he wanted, while perhaps not sure how he was going to do it, stayed true to himself and the work and accolades followed. Tim is strong willed, sure of his design ideas and doesn’t seem to have anything to prove. Another reason why I am so fond of Tim Corrigan and so happy to install him as this months inductee to the CXD Icon Registry.
Thank you, Tim for taking the time and the willingness to share your story. Congratulations on your addition to the Convo By Design Icon Registry. Thank you for listening and subscribing to the show. Thank you to my partner sponsors Design Hardware, ThermaSol, TimberTech, Monogram and Pacific Sales. these are amazing partners all, they support the trade and I love sharing these amazing resources with you. Thanks again for listening, until next week, be well and take today first. – CXD
This episode of The Design Messengers is dedicated to an original in the field of design. Someone who has earned their reputation for the amazing work they do. This individual has been on Convo By Design in the past, I believe three times in different ways; As a solo guest, a multi-guest episode and on a panel I produced at the WestEdge Design Fair. Have you heard the story of Timothy Corrigan and Arch Digest? You probably have by now, if not in his Instagram feed, then perhaps through Business of Home who did an absolutely wonderful job covering this. If you have not heard this story yet, check the show notes for a link to the BoH story. Honestly, I can’t tell it any better than Fred Nicolaus executive editor@BOH did.
To synopsize, Tim worked on Sofia Vergara’s home in the Los Angeles suburb of Beverly Park. He worked on this project for years. His firm was replaced, for whatever reason with that of O’Hara Davies-Gaetano. Davies-Gaetano is another alum of Convo By Design. She has been on the show and I think that she too is a very talented designer. So, far so good, no problem. Clients and creatives part ways all the time. Enter @ArchDigest …The 800 pound gorilla in our industry. They publish the project and in the original piece, there is no mention of Corrigan’s work despite much of the specified material and architectural detail of Corrigan’s firm present in the final project. Corrigan called BS and had lawyers send a letter of complaint to AD which I have not read but which did result in a digital version correction and I would not be surprised to see a carefully worded correction in the next print edition. I am glad that they are doing this but to be frank with you, it is not only unfortunate that this happened but it was entirely avoidable. How?
The trade publications have slashed editorial staff over the past decade.
The contributors who are writing these stories are not, in most cases, trained journalists but instead, content producers who work off subject provided information and push the stories out fast. In many cases working on multiple projects for the same publication or in some cases freelancing for other outlets.
There are no real journalistic standards for our industry. There should be.
With the proliferation of social media, idea theft runs rampant, claims made are not checked and because there is so much content pushed out, it would take an army to do it.
I do not think there are any villains here. I think there are a number of players involved in this story that are overworked, overstimulated by social media content, driven to push out any celebrity driven story as fast as they can because that is what they believe their audience wants to see. I have issues with Architectural Digest and some other other industry pubs but AD in particular. Years ago, Architectural Digest published a piece on AD Pro that misattributed Convo By Design to another company. Check the show notes for a link, if it gets taken down by the time you hear this, email me and let me know so I can publish a screen shot to our IG feed. I reached out to AD’s contributor the week it happened. That was in October of 2019 and they still haven’t fixed it as of this recording.
Corrigan handled this the way it should have been handled. But let’s be honest about this… Were it a lesser designer, they most likely would have been ignored. I also think that what Tim did was incredibly brave. There could be ramifications, you just never know. My hope is that the folks at the shelter publications,if they do believe strongly in our industry and who do, in fact make our industry better will use this experience to strengthen their journalistic practices. I would like to see all the trade pubs use trained journalists with a focus on design and architecture to write. That is not always the case. But, if it were, they could catch some of these inconsistencies well in advance of publication. And, if errors are made, which happen all the time because we humans a fallible and we journalists do make mistakes, once discovered, should have practices in place to correct the issue to the very best of their ability. We will see if this happens in this case. What does that mean… To the best of one’s ability. If I am being honest with you, I think there is far more that AD can do, I feel like in this case, they have thus-far done the bare minimum. You might ask, “like what, Josh?”. Great question. I did a bit more digging, and checked out AD’s YouTube channel. The Sofia Vergara project video remains on the channel, as of this recording on March 15th, it has just over 6 million views and absolutely no reference to Tim Corrigan. Sofia mentions O’Hara at least three times but there is no mention of Corrigan, his work or his influence on this project. There is no mention of him in the description
nor in any credits. There is no credit to O’Hara in the credits either which I found odd. I think it speaks to the lack of formal guidelines in media production and project credit attribution.
Something else to consider, as machine learning continues to gain traction in every industry but specially ours, an algorithm would not know to credit Corrigan for his work on this project and in all future inquiries submitted through AI bots, he would never get credit for his work. This should trouble every single designer, architect, maker and brand from the biggest to the smallest. There should be rules, there should be standards. It would also stand to reason that the biggest players in the space from media to brands would act as thought leaders in this regard.
In an effort to help be part of the change, I would like to share a past episode of Convo By Design as it relates directly to this very issue.
Episode 175, recorded in 2017 and published in 2018 called, Intellectual Right for Creative Types features Emile Nicolau, an IP attorney I worked with at Playboy along with Wendy Posner and Gary Gibson is a fantastic opportunity to hear about the ins and out of IP rights as they affect the design community.
The link to this episode is in the show notes. At the end of the day and through this episode you will learn that regardless of the IP or attribution issue, as a professional in any industry but specifically the design and architecture industry you can choose to defend your rights. You can also choose not to. But make no mistake, that is a choice and nobody is going to do it for you. If you see something that doesn’t make sense, say something. Those on the shelter media side, you have a choice as well. Do you make it right, or not? And that is a choice, one that should not be decided based on the size and experience of the creative, nor on wether or not they have an attorney but instead, is it the right thing to do. If you made a mistake, own it. Thank you, Tim for forcing this issue. Your actions have once again made the industry better than it was when you arrived.
Thank you for listening to Convo By Design. If you have questions or comments on this issue or any others, please email me, convobydesign@outlook.com. Until next time, be well and take today first. – Convo By Design
Source: All above mentioned source material was acquired from the internet on March, 15, 2024.
I’m Josh Cooperman and this is Convo By Design. Technically its Convo By Design, in reality, this is another episode of Kyle Bunting & Friends…. If you heard this last week and you think it’s a repeat, it’s not. Keep listening.
A few months ago, you heard an episode of Convo By Design featuring Fern Santini, Lauren Rottet and Jan Showers. That episode included and was orchestrated by Kyle Bunting. Kyle and I have gotten to know each other a little bit since he was on the show and we were talking one day and this idea just came up, got legs, sprouted wings and before I knew what happened, Kyle offered to put this all-star panel together for an episode to be featured on the CXD spinoff, Lone Star House of Design.
It sounds kind of complicated, it’s really not. You can check all of the previous podcast episodes on your podcast source of choice and find everything previously referenced. Back to the story. While Kyle and I were talking after the episode with Lauren, Jan and Fern aired, I mentioned his collar with another CXD alum, Timothy Corrigan and Kyle was like… “I have an idea.” What is about to follow, in 2 episodes because it could not be packaged into one, is an incredible 2-part conversation about European rugs, collaborations, artistry in hide and a history of rug making.
This is part two of our conversation. This expands on what you’ve heard previously and showcases the history and significance of each piece referenced in the Chateau Collection. Everything from Aubusson to Savonnerie. You are going to hear about the origins of the Polonaise, delicate detail of the Boule as well as custom creations like the Empire and Moderne. This is a deep dive into color ways, replacing metallic silks with Hyde to produce a finished product that has the glimmer of polished steel. Coloring that breathes depth into the pattern.
So, this Kyle Bunting & Friends concept is pretty cool and I think you’re going to dig it. Speaking of that…Are you subscribing to the podcast, if not, please do so you get every episode automatically when they are published. You can find Convo By Design everywhere you find your favorite podcasts and now, you can find us on DesignNetwork dot Org, a destination dedicated to podcasts, all things design and architecture so make sure to check it out.
Thank you, Tim and Kyle, for being a part of this. I am so fortunate to have friends like you. I really enjoyed our time together and love the collection. Thank you Walker Zanger and ThermaSol for your partnership. And, thank you for listening and subscribing to the podcast. Keep those emails coming convo by design at Outlook dot com. Adding the word “pleasure” to our architectural aspirations will make life better for all who choose to embrace this idea. See if you can add this word to what you do every day and see what happens. I am looking forward to seeing you again in person at a design event near you very soon. Until then, be well and take today first.
This is Convo By Design. Technically, its Convo By Design… in reality, this is another episode of Kyle Bunting & Friends. A few months ago, you heard an episode of Convo By Design featuring Fern Santini,Lauren Rottet and Jan Showers. That episode included and was orchestrated by Kyle Bunting. Kyle and I have gotten to know each other a little bit since he was on the show and we were talking one day and this idea just came up, got legs, sprouted wings and before I knew what happened, Kyle offered to put this all-star panel together for an episode to be featured on the CXD spinoff, Lone Star House of Design.
It sounds kind of complicated, it’s really not. You can check all of the previous podcast episodes on your podcast source of choice and find everything previously referenced. Back to the story. While Kyle and I were talking after the episode with Lauren, Jan and Fern aired, I mentioned his collar with another CXD alum, Timothy Corrigan and Kyle was like… “I have an idea.” What is about to follow, in 2 episodes because it could not be packaged into one, is an incredible 2-part conversation about European rugs, collaborations, artistry in hide and a history of rug making.
This is part one of our conversation. You are going to hear about partnerships, European rugs by type and the process by which Timothy Corrigan imagined his Chateau Collection and Kyle set out to create it. This is a soon-to-be classic tale of creator/ designer and artist/ craftsman working together to produce something exquisite, delicate in appearance but durable, an heirloom quality rug made from the earliest of sourced materials.
So, this Kyle Bunting & Friends concept is pretty cool and I think you’re going to dig it. Speaking of that…Are you subscribing to the podcast, if not, please do so you get every episode automatically when they are published. You can find Convo By Design everywhere you find your favorite podcasts and now, you can find us on DesignNetwork dot Org, a destination dedicated to podcasts, all things design and architecture so make sure to check it out.
Thank you, Tim and Kyle, for being a part of this. I am so fortunate to have friends like you. I really enjoyed our time together and love the collection. Thank you Walker Zanger and ThermaSol for your partnership. And, thank you for listening and subscribing to the podcast. Keep those emails coming convo by design at Outlook dot com. Adding the word “pleasure” to our architectural aspirations will make life better for all who choose to embrace this idea. See if you can add this word to what you do every day and see what happens. I am looking forward to seeing you again in person at a design event near you very soon. Until then, be well and take today first.
The reason I love doing this podcast as much as I do is because of the amazing people I meet along the way. It’s as simple as that. In this episode of the show you are going to hear from three amazing designers and tremendous people; Michael Berman, Timothy Corrigan, and Genevieve Trousdale. The setting is WestEdge Design Fair and the top is mentorship. I have had the great fortune of interviewing each of them separately but I wanted them on stage so you could hear the story about the connection that binds the three of them together. This is a story about learning, teaching, sharing and collaborating. One of the greatest gifts that come from teaching is what the teacher learns from the student. This is story is very much about that.
That’s a wrap on this episode of Convo By Design. Thank you, Genevieve, Michael, and Timothy. Thank you WestEdge Design Fair for making a public forum possible. Thank you, Walker Zanger, for your support and most of all, thank you for listening. Were it not for you, there would be no Convo By Design. Until next week, keep creating.
