Category Archives: Lighting

Craftsmanship in A Digital Age | 532 | WestEdge Rewind from 2015

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I’m Josh Cooperman, this is Convo By Design and today, as we inch closer to WestEdge Design Fair, the 2024 edition, with everything going on behind the scenes as we prepare a slate of programming to surprise and delight you, I wanted to share a program from the past. As we finalize the roster  and get everything solidified, I wanted to share the “why” behind the programming. These panels are crafted to feature game changing, disrupting creatives and topics that hold up. What makes the WestEdge stage so special is the thought and effort that goes into the topics. They have all been carefully crafted, talent curated to speak to these ideas. Ideas that should hold up for years to come. 

Designer Resources

Pacific Sales Kitchen and Home. Where excellence meets expertise.

Monogram – It’s the details that define Monogram

ThermaSol – Redefining the modern shower experience. Without steam, it’s just a bathroom.

Design Hardware – A stunning and vast collection of jewelry for the home!

 – Where service meets excellence

TimberTech – Real wood beauty without the upkeep

The program you are going to hear today was called Craftsmanship in the Digital Age. Here is how it was described in the program: Is Craftsmanship a lost art in a world where we increasingly value expediency and accessibility over authenticity and beauty? Join Steven Gambrel, interior designer and co-founder of Dering Hall, as he leads a discussion with some of the most talented artisans and designers working today. How have our digitally-centered lives made us care even more about objects created with passion, skill and time-honored tradition? How do designers create a network of skilled craftspeople and educate their clients about the value craft? Explore the marketing of bespoke products and how digital tools have made success as an artisan more of a reality than ever before.

Featuring Bernard Brucha, MASHstudios; Paul Priven, Zia Priven; Wendy Schwartz, Cuffhome; and Delta Wright, Curated

Think about this for a moment, the program you are about to hear was covering craftsmanship and the value that authenticity holds in made goods. This conversation might as well have taken place in 2020 at the onset of the pandemic when authentic craftsmanship was a must have. Or in 2018, when every design event was discussing how to reach Millennials and their desire for fewer, but more authentic goods. Or, well… now, at a time when hand-made comes at a premium. Again, this was recorded in 2015, live at WestEdge. And I am proud to share this with you again. Right after this.

Thank you, Bernard, Paul, Wendy and Delta. Thank you, Megan and Troy from WestEdge. I enjoyed our conversations so much. Thank you to my partner sponsors, ThermaSol, Pacific Sales, TimberTech, Monogram and Design Hardware. These partners are amazing companies all who have made a concerted effort to support the design community through education, incentives, events, media and exposure, not to mention a collection of extraordinary products and service to match. Check the show notes for links to each of them so you can see first hand how they can make your design business thrive and your projects exceed expectations. Thank you for listening, downloading, subscribing and sharing the show with your friends and colleagues. Thank you for your emails, show and guest suggestions. Please keep them coming, convobydesign at Outlook dot com and on Instagram @ConvoXdesign, with an “x”.  Until the next episode, be well and take today first. -Convo By Design

Timothy Corrigan | 530 | Our September 2024 Design Icon Registry Inductee

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I’m Josh Cooperman and this is the September 2024 installment of the Convo By Design Icon Registry featuring another absolutely incredible creative who appeared on the show not once, but I think this gentleman has been on the show 4 times over the past 11 years in every way possible. He has been on a panel, featured in an individual interview, been part of The Showroom series. He’s incredible. This months inductee is an amazing talent a gentleman and a friend. Timothy Corrigan.

I met Tim for the first time, I believe it was 2017. I went to his Los Angeles offices and we spoke about so many things and that is the episode I wanted to share with you today as we induct Tim into the Convo By Design Icon Registry. Somethings you should know about Tim. First, he is one heck of a person. He is one of those people you feel like you’ve known your whole life from the moment you meet him. Second, he already had a stellar career before design in the advertising industry. He led international operations for Saatchi & Saatchi’s Bates Worldwide prior to opening his eponymous design firm in 1998. For reference, Bates Worldwide, in 1998, had billings in excess of $7.7B and operations in 70+ countries with 156+ offices. 

One of the interesting things Tim and I talked about was the Bates Worldwide concept of the USP. Unique Selling Proposition. A concept you see offered everywhere but rarely understood. The idea is that wherever there is competition, one must find the differentiator, the thing that makes them stand out. Something that none else offers. That idea that competitively sets you apart. That others in the field don’t offer. There is far more to the concept but in a world where every designer is an “award winning” designer, Tim allows the work to override the accolades. The irony is not lost on me. To be talking about how it’s not about the accolades, while bestowing accolades, the point is that Ti has always understood his USP, he launched his firm knowing what he wanted, while perhaps not sure how he was going to do it, stayed true to himself and the work and accolades followed. Tim is strong willed, sure of his design ideas and doesn’t seem to have anything to prove. Another reason why I am so fond of Tim Corrigan and so happy to install him as this months inductee to the CXD Icon Registry.

Thank you, Tim for taking the time and the willingness to share your story. Congratulations on your addition to the Convo By Design Icon Registry. Thank you for listening and subscribing to the show. Thank you to my partner sponsors Design Hardware, ThermaSol, TimberTech, Monogram and Pacific Sales. these are amazing partners all, they support the trade and I love sharing these amazing resources with you. Thanks again for listening, until next week, be well and take today first. – CXD

Why is it So Hard to Build in California | 527 | How to Prepare in Other States for the Coming Changes

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I’m Josh Cooperman and this is Convo By Design with a detailed conversation about why it is just so hard to build in California. It’s important to say in advance with listeners all over the world that picking California is the canary in the coal-mine. Which is to say that it is an early indicator of potential issues elsewhere because I think it is fair to say that California tries things first, as a rule.

Designer Resources

Pacific Sales Kitchen and Home. Where excellence meets expertise.

Monogram – It’s the details that define Monogram

ThermaSol – Redefining the modern shower experience. Without steam, it’s just a bathroom.

Design Hardware – A stunning and vast collection of jewelry for the home!

– Where service meets excellence

TimberTech – Real wood beauty without the upkeep

It’s somewhat comforting to know that the Golden State remains a place where new ideas are tested. Unless you happen to be one of the brave individuals who is testing those boundaries. My friend Joan Barton is the founder of Dirty Girl Construction and SheSpoke Studio, a place for creative women to tell their stories. So today, this a Convo By Design takeover featuring Joan and an amazing group of women general contractors telling their war stories about building in Los Angeles in particular and California in general. And if you are in New York, Miami, Atlanta, Texas, well, maybe not Texas, but everywhere else, the concepts are on their way to your town soon so give this a listen. Thank you Joan for lading this amazing talk with some extraordinary GC’s, all women and some of the best in the business including; Shannon Sheehan, Laura Howley, Catherine Springer, and Catie Casazza. This was recorded live during the winter 2024 Day of Design event at Design Hardware  and you are going to hear all about it.

My friend and the moderator of the following conversation is Joan Barton of Dirty Girl Construction. Not only is Joan a multi-hyphenate creative. She a GC, musician, creative thinker, futurist, but she is also a terrific person. Wonderful and talented people are often surrounded by other wonderful and talented people, birds of a feather… as the saying goes.  I’m not going to get into introductions , I’m going to let Joan do that part, but here’s what II will say about the following episode of the show. This is an important conversation because many of the reasons it is so challenging to build in California are due to the popularity of the state. This popularity and resulting overcrowding combined with a movement toward self-preservation combine with over zealous governance and natural disasters have led to bloated yet dysfunctional metropolitan management and over-regulation combined with material shortages. It’s a lot and it takes someone very special to articulate it and get to the bottom of it and you’re going to hear from her, them actually, right after this.

Thank you, Joan, Catie, Shannon, and Lauren for taking the time to share your thoughts. Thank you to my partner sponsors, ThermaSol, Pacific Sales, TimberTech, Monogram and Design Hardware. These partners are amazing companies all who have made a concerted effort to support the design community through education, incentives, events, media and exposure, not to mention a collection of extraordinary products and service to match. Check the show notes for links to each of them so you can see first hand how they can make your design business thrive and your projects exceed expectations. Thank you for listening, downloading, subscribing and sharing the show with your friends and colleagues. Thank you for your emails, show and guest suggestions. Please keep them coming, convobydesign at Outlook dot com and on Instagram @ConvoXdesign, with an “x”.  Until the next episode, be well and take today first. -Convo By Design

 

Leading Designers Explain The Ultimate Kitchen | 526 | Live from the Monogram Kitchen in Pacific Sales

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I’m Josh Cooperman and this is Convo By Design. But you know that and I am thankful that you are listening to the show and joining me on this little journey of ours. And, it is a journey. I was thinking about you this week. If you are listening to the show, you are a designer, architect, manufacturer, in the industry or a design enthusiast and you take time out of your day to listen to the show. I take that as a challenge to provide you with the opportunity to hear from amazing creatives, incredible brand partners and others in this industry all the while in pursuit of sublime design wherever we can find it.

Designer Resources

Pacific Sales Kitchen and Home. Where excellence meets expertise.

Monogram – It’s the details that define Monogram

ThermaSol – Redefining the modern shower experience. Without steam, it’s just a bathroom.

Design Hardware – A stunning and vast collection of jewelry for the home!

 – Where service meets excellence

TimberTech – Real wood beauty without the upkeep

We are in a fairly weird time right now, I know you feel it the same way I do. We’re all feeling the strange vibes from the economy, politics, social media. But home is refuge. Designers and architects make that happen. In an effort to further drill down on this idea, I host small format events presented and hosted by Pacific Sales and Monogram, the official appliance partners of Convo By Design. I have been working with Pacific Sales in one way or another since the podcast started in 2013. And by Pacific Sales standards, that would make me the rookie amongst their staff. I met up with my friend Shaun Ayala at KBIS this year and he introduced me to the Pacific Sales team that made the journey to Las Vegas. Everyone I met had been with Pacific Sales between 15 and 25 years. These days, when companies open and close or decide to reimagine themselves every year or so, Pacific Sales has been there for their clients and design partners for over 60 years and backed by Best Buy. This is not a commercial, they sponsor the show, absolutely and I am really proud of that. And they do great work, like hosting the event from which the following conversation was recorded. 

The Complete Kitchen. What does that mean? The kitchen has changed in dramatic ways and continues to evolve in previously unimaginable ways. The primary kitchen, dirty or working kitchen, outdoor kitchen, butler’s pantry, wine bar, wet bar, coffee bar… ensuite kitchenette, bathroom beverage center, sport court kitchenette. The idea of kitchen has changed and is limited only by imagination… And budget. We’re going to talk about all of this. Here is who joined me at the Pacific Sales Kitchen and Home showroom in Irvine, California:

Lisa McDennon

Terri Brein

Susan Thiel

Joseph DeCasparis

Jess Jones

Paul Fernandez

Thank you,Michelle, Terri, Jess, Susan, Paul and Joe. Thank you Verzine, Cesar and Shaun with Pacific Sales for hosting the amazing experience. I enjoyed our conversation and cannot wait to see what you do next. Thank you to my partner sponsors, ThermaSol, Pacific Sales, TimberTech, Monogram and Design Hardware. These partners are amazing companies all who have made a concerted effort to support the design community through education, incentives, events, media and exposure, not to mention a collection of extraordinary products and service to match. Check the show notes for links to each of them so you can see first hand how they can make your design business thrive and your projects exceed expectations. Thank you for listening, downloading, subscribing and sharing the show with your friends and colleagues. Thank you for your emails, show and guest suggestions. Please keep them coming, convobydesign at Outlook dot com and on Instagram @ConvoXdesign, with an “x”.  Until the next episode, be well and take today first. -Convo By Design

Jamie Bush | 525 | Our August 2024 Design Icon Registry Inductee

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I’m Josh Cooperman and this is the August 2024 installment of the Convo By Design Icon Registry featuring another absolutely incredible creative who appeared on the show. This months inductee is an amazing talent, Jamie Bush.

Designer Resources

Pacific Sales Kitchen and Home. Where excellence meets expertise.

Monogram – It’s the details that define Monogram

ThermaSol – Redefining the modern shower experience. Without steam, it’s just a bathroom.

Design Hardware – A stunning and vast collection of jewelry for the home!

 – Where service meets excellence

TimberTech – Real wood beauty without the upkeep

Jamie and I met at his LA offices quite some time ago, 2018 I think. What struck me most about Jamie then as it does now is the frame of reference he draws against. Growing up on a dairy farm in upstate New York with family members in the creative arts as well. Designers, photographers. Jamie studied architecture in New Orleans, moves out to LA and founds his design company in 2002. This experience of his has given him opposing viewpoints from which to draw his design concepts. Jamie is a deep thinker and and extraordinary. And he doesn’t shy away from giving back. That’s what makes Jamie Bush, a design icon.

Thank you, Jamie for taking the time and the willingness to share your story. Congratulations on your addition to the Convo By Design Icon Registry. Thank you for listening and subscribing to the show. Thank you to my partner sponsors Design Hardware, ThermaSol, TimberTech, Monogram and Pacific Sales. these are amazing partners all, they support the trade and I love sharing these amazing resources with you. Thanks again for listening, until next week, be well and take today first. – CXD

A Day of Creative Conversations featuring Women in Essential and Luxury Design from Around the U.S. | 524 | LIVE from Design Hardware in LA, May 2024

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I’m Josh Cooperman and this is Convo By Design with a group of exceptional designers from our Day of Design gathering in Los Angeles in May 2024.

I think designers and architects provide a service that simply cannot be measured in terms of dollars and cents. Especially in an era of fast content, social media perspective that creates a social dysmorphia. We have all become so inextricably tied to the internet and social media that it is truly difficult to differentiate reality form make believe. The following conversations feature designers who met me at Design Hardware in LA for a day of creative thinking and sharing of dynamic design ideas that are shaping the way we design in 2024. 

Designer Resources

Pacific Sales Kitchen and Home. Where excellence meets expertise.

Monogram – It’s the details that define Monogram

ThermaSol – Redefining the modern shower experience. Without steam, it’s just a bathroom.

Design Hardware – A stunning and vast collection of jewelry for the home!

 – Where service meets excellence

TimberTech – Real wood beauty without the upkeep

I have found that f you gather creative types and provide the platform for them to showcase their individual approach to the work, some universal concepts begin to form and you have the opportunity to see what really makes these people special. The reason skilled designers can do what they do is because they possess the ability to silence the noise and focus in on true needs and desires of their clients. This is how they do it.

Letecia Ellis Haywood

Alina Wolhardt

Susie Novak

Mary Patton

Lauren Martin Moro

So much fun, right? Thank you, Lauren, Amy, Letecia, Alina, Mary, Susie. It was not my intent, but this turned out to be an amazing showcase of women designers who are setting the tone for the next phase of our design renaissance! Thank you for taking the time to share your story. I enjoyed our conversation and cannot wait to see what you do next. Thank you to my partner sponsors, ThermaSol, Pacific Sales, TimberTech, Monogram and Design Hardware. These partners are amazing companies all who have made a concerted effort to support the design community through education, incentives, events, media and exposure, not to mention a collection of extraordinary products and service to match. Check the show notes for links to each of them so you can see first hand how they can make your design business thrive and your projects exceed expectations. Thank you for listening, downloading, subscribing and sharing the show with your friends and colleagues. Thank you for your emails, show and guest suggestions. Please keep them coming, convobydesign at Outlook dot com and on Instagram @ConvoXdesign, with an “x”.  Until the next episode, be well and take today first. -Convo By Design

Scott Specht of Specht Novak | 522 | From Modern to Experimental. Next Level Modern Architecture, and it’s Fantastic

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I’m Josh Cooperman and this is Convo By Design with a conversation about architecture. Modern architecture, large and small but all spectacular with architect Scott Specht of Specht Novak Architects.

Designer Resources

Pacific Sales Kitchen and Home. Where excellence meets expertise.

Monogram – It’s the details that define Monogram

ThermaSol – Redefining the modern shower experience. Without steam, it’s just a bathroom.

Design Hardware – A stunning and vast collection of jewelry for the home!

– Where service meets excellence

TimberTech – Real wood beauty without the upkeep

On a recent city visit to Kansas City, I bought a book in a used bookstore. The book is called The Paris Architect. Published in 2013 by Charles Balfoure. It takes place in 1942 Paris and revolves around an architect and creative architecture used to save Jews from the Nazis. Of course there is more to it and perhaps I will give it the full Booklook treatment at some point. That is for another day, but it got me thinking about the Bauhaus, modern architecture in all its  wonderful forms from France’s Art Deco, German Bauhaus and Brutalism through concrete forms. It also got me thinking about creative ways architecture can and is used to make life better for those who inhabit, live, work, love in these spaces. I had a conversation with Scott Specht of Specht Novak Architects and we discuss all of this. Specht’s work and that of his firm is exceptional examples of Modern Architecture at its absolute best. Per usual, we walk through Scott’s projects so check the show notes for a link to their project page and follow along. Everything from the sublime Weston Residence in Connecticut to the fun and funky Carpenter Hotel in Austin. From the Austin Cliffside Residence which is an absolute specimen in creative use of space to the experimental, Next American House. You are going to enjoy the ride. I guarantee it. And you are going to hear all about it, right after this.  

Thank you, Scott. Amazing. I enjoyed our conversation and cannot wait to see the Next American Home in person. Thank you to my partner sponsors, ThermaSol, Pacific Sales, TimberTech, Monogram and Design Hardware. These partners are amazing companies all who have made a concerted effort to support the design community through education, incentives, events, media and exposure, not to mention a collection of extraordinary products and service to match. Check the show notes for links to each of them so you can see first hand how they can make your design business thrive and your projects exceed expectations. Thank you for listening, downloading, subscribing and sharing the show with your friends and colleagues. Thank you for your emails, show and guest suggestions. Please keep them coming, convobydesign at Outlook dot com and on Instagram @ConvoXdesign, with an “x”.  Until the next episode, be well and take today first. -Convo By Design

 

 

Old and New, A Design Story from an Emerging Design Destination, Kansas City | 521 | Kobel & Co.

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I’m Josh Cooperman, this is Convo By Design and this week we are heading to another hotbed of design in the Midwest, Kansas City. We’re visiting with Mallory Robins and Elizabeth Bennett, partners in Kobel +Co, a firm that curates happiness and joy through interior design and creation of contemplative spaces.

We are discussing things like curated minimalism, happy places and timeworn objects. All revolving around the idea that design is the curated creation of the place where you want to be. Sounds so easy, right? Manufacturing the place where you want to be. It’s not easy. That is why I think you are going to enjoy listening to the following conversation with Mallory and Elizabeth as much as I did facilitating it. I also enjoy sharing the stories from the design flyovers for a number of reasons. First, for years you have heard me complaining that the traditional design media doesn’t provide any love to designers not residing in New York, LA, Miami, Boston, etc. but you are starting to. And that is a good thing. I also enjoy doing this because it gives me a chance to come and visit these cities to fully understand the dynamics behind the growth of metropolitan areas across the US. For those who have never been to Kansas City, it is a fun, funky town with some really interesting design. Perhaps after hearing from Elizabeth and Mallory, you will.  Trust me, it’s worth the visit. You are going to hear all about it, right after this.

Designer Resources

Pacific Sales Kitchen and Home. Where excellence meets expertise.

Monogram – It’s the details that define Monogram

ThermaSol – Redefining the modern shower experience. Without steam, it’s just a bathroom.

Design Hardware – A stunning and vast collection of jewelry for the home!

TimberTech – Real wood beauty without the upkeep

We are discussing things like curated minimalism, happy places and timeworn objects. All revolving around the idea that design is the curated creation of the place where you want to be. Sounds so easy, right? Manufacturing the place where you want to be. It’s not easy. That is why I think you are going to enjoy listening to the following conversation with Mallory and Elizabeth as much as I did facilitating it. I also enjoy sharing the stories from the design flyovers for a number of reasons. First, for years you have heard me complaining that the traditional design media doesn’t provide any love to designers not residing in New York, LA, Miami, Boston, etc. but you are starting to. And that is a good thing. I also enjoy doing this because it gives me a chance to come and visit these cities to fully understand the dynamics behind the growth of metropolitan areas across the US. For those who have never been to Kansas City, it is a fun, funky town with some really interesting design. Perhaps after hearing from Elizabeth and Mallory, you will.  Trust me, it’s worth the visit. You are going to hear all about it, right after this.

Thank you, Elizabeth and Mallory, love your city, love your work. . I enjoyed our conversation and I am so appreciative to you for taking the time to share. Thank you to my partner sponsors, ThermaSol, Pacific Sales, TimberTech, Monogram and Design Hardware. These partners are amazing companies all who have made a concerted effort to support the design community through education, incentives, events, media and exposure, not to mention a collection of extraordinary products and service to match. Check the show notes for links to each of them so you can see first hand how they can make your design business thrive and your projects exceed expectations. Thank you for listening, downloading, subscribing and sharing the show with your friends and colleagues. Thank you for your emails, show and guest suggestions. Please keep them coming, convobydesign at Outlook dot com and on Instagram @ConvXdesign, with an “x”.  Until the next episode, be well and take today first. -Convo By Design

Restrained Drama and Unchained Talent , An Instant Classic | 519 | Adam Hunter

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I’m Josh Cooperman and this is Convo By Design with an episode featuring a spectacular creative, Adam Hunter and I am going to call the following episode an instant classic. I don’t do that often, and you are going to hear why.

Adam and I first met years ago at an industry function in LA. I have followed his career and it really is incredible to see what he has done with his firm. He has built an amazing firm upon spectacular design and an affinity for drama going back to his previous career in theater. We talk about this and a number of other things that correspond to the work he has done which, per usual for the show, we explore and evaluate online and if you wish to follow along as we do, which I highly encourage because it is both fun and fascinating to see the work as we describes. It’s an insiders look at design. www.adamhunter.com 

Designer Resources

Pacific Sales Kitchen and Home. Where excellence meets expertise.

Monogram – It’s the details that define Monogram

ThermaSol – Redefining the modern shower experience. Without steam, it’s just a bathroom.

Design Hardware – A stunning and vast collection of jewelry for the home!

 – Where service meets excellence

TimberTech – Real wood beauty without the upkeep

When evaluating the work of a creative like Adam Hunter, it’s enlightening to understand that Adam built a successful career in theater prior to coming into design. That experience can be seen in the narrative that the design tells. It’s a form of storytelling. Both from an understanding of whom he is designing the space and the lives those who inhabit the space wish to live. I have had a number of wonderful conversations over the years with professional set decorators and its truly amazing to hear how they process a written script and then dress a set to provide details of the character that neither the actors nor the script itself cold explain. It provides nuance and context. A performer like Adam both understands this and has been trained to both ideate and execute on the concept which, when done right, tells the story of the characters and defines who the are by how they live.

Thank you, Adam. I loved our conversation and I am so appreciative to you for taking the time to share. Thank you to my partner sponsors, ThermaSol, Pacific Sales, TimberTech, Monogram and Design Hardware. These partners are amazing companies all who have made a concerted effort to support the design community through education, incentives, events, media and exposure, not to mention a collection of extraordinary products and service to match. Check the show notes for links to each of them so you can see first hand how they can make your design business thrive and your projects exceed expectations. Thank you for listening, downloading, subscribing and sharing the show with your friends and colleagues. Thank you for your emails, show and guest suggestions. Please keep them coming, convobydesign at Outlook dot com and on Instagram @ConvoXdesign, with an “x”.  Until the next episode, be well and take today first. -CXD

Erin Ellwood | 515 | Fame, Architecture, Design and That Which is Truly Important

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I’m Josh Cooperman and this is Convo By Design with a conversation about fame, design, architecture and that which is truly important. 

Designer Resources

Pacific Sales Kitchen and Home. Where excellence meets expertise.

Monogram – It’s the details that define Monogram

ThermaSol – Redefining the modern shower experience. Without steam, it’s just a bathroom.

Design Hardware – A stunning and vast collection of jewelry for the home!

 – Where service meets excellence

TimberTech – Real wood beauty without the upkeep

I sought out Erin after learning about her father, Craig Ellwood, architect behind the Zimmerman House. Said house was recently demolished at the hands of actor, Chris Pratt and his wife, Katherine Schwarzenegger. We’ve talked about this already in a previous episode and the following conversation isn’t about saving iconic design. We touch on the subject but this is really about Erin’s journey, of which her father’s architecture is a large part. As is the work of her mother, Gloria Henry. An actress with an incredible career spanning from 1947 through appearances on Parks and Recreation as recently as 2012. Which featured, yep… Chris Pratt, so it all comes full circle. Erin’s story is an amazing journey of self discovery and expression. Lessons learned and applied. And you are going to hear all about it, right after this.

Thank you, Erin. Thank you for the time and sharing your extraordinary journey. If you are a bit surprised that Erin is not mad about the Zimmerman House destruction, I was too. That is until I heard her rationale, then I understood.  Thank you to my amazing partner sponsors, ThermaSol, Design Hardware, TimberTech, pacific Sales and Monogram. Your support for the design industry is strong and lasting. For that I thank you. And thank you for taking the time out of your busy day. Thank you for listening, downloading and sharing the show. And for your emails to convo by design at outlook dot com and following along on IG @convoXdesign, with an “X”.

I’m looking forward to next week and another story about sublime design. Until then, be well, and take today first. -CXD