I sat down with Ron Radziner and Leo Marmol to dig into why building in Southern California feels like an uphill battle and how we can actually fix it.
After their talk at WestEdge, I caught up with Ron and Leo to process everything discussed. We’re at a major inflection point in Southern California, and I wanted to know how their perspective has shifted since they started back in ’89. We dove into the “fucking NIMBYs,” the skyrocketing costs of construction, and why our current zoning laws are essentially a slow-motion economic disaster. From the lessons of the Palisades fires to the potential of prefab, we explored what it actually takes to build a sustainable community when the deck is stacked against you.
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The Cost of Inequality: Ron shared his deep worry about the growing gap between the middle class and the ultra-wealthy, and how rising construction costs are making it nearly impossible to provide housing for anyone in between.
Zoning is the Real Bottleneck: We agreed that the talent and desire to build are there, but we lack the political will to let architects do their jobs. Our current planning and zoning laws are the primary hurdles to building quickly and affordably.
The Density Myth: Leo pushed back hard on the idea that density is the problem. He pointed out that 72% of our residential land is locked into single-family homes, which simply can’t support the housing volume we need.
Stopping the Sprawl: We talked about the need to stop sprawling into high-risk wildfire zones like Riverside County and instead focus on density and infill within the urban core.
Limits on Community Vetoes: While community input matters, Leo argued there has to be a point where the litigation stops. We can’t let individual voices stall essential progress like bike lanes and sustainable housing forever.
The Prefab Opportunity: With so many similar lots needing to be rebuilt in the Palisades and Altadena, Ron sees a massive opening for high-quality prefab construction to get people back into homes faster.
Lessons from Lortondale: I brought up my move to Tulsa and the Lortondale community—a whole neighborhood of mid-century modern tract homes that are still intact, in demand, and haven’t been commodified out of reach. It’s proof that mass-produced architecture can have a soul and stay accessible.
Innovation Under Pressure: Prefab, Modular, and the Future of Resilient Design Under Pressure. Architecture is evolving faster than ever, driven by natural disasters, technology, and client expectations—but how do designers balance innovation with risk, regulation, and lifestyle priorities? Josh Cooperman hosts an unfiltered conversation with Drew Davis, Brian Pinkett, Aaron Neubert, and Joseph Dangaran about prefabrication, modular construction, client programming, and the challenges of rebuilding communities in fire- and flood-prone regions. From the Palisades to Paris, they explore how architecture must adapt—or risk falling behind.
1. Introduction and Context
Host introduction: Josh Cooperman, Convo By Design.
Acknowledgements: Kim Gordon Designs (venue), Pacific Sales Kitchen & Home (sponsor and industry supporter).
Why the discussion matters: natural disasters as a case study in architecture’s evolving role.
Personal anecdote: Josh’s wildfire experience in 1983 highlighting the urgency of resilient design.
When interiors meet intention: a dynamic panel on how color theory, holistic living, sustainable materials, and design thinking come together to redefine residential spaces for 2025 and beyond.
Sherwin Williams set out to cover Earth with beautiful colors over 150 years ago. 1866, Henry Sherwin and Edward Williams founded the company in Cleveland, Ohio, on a mission really. And the result is a company dedicated to delivery of thebest in paints, coatings and related products to discerning clients all over the world. That dedication was evident from the start with the hiring of Percy Neyman, the very first chemist employed by an American paint manufacturer. Sherwin Williams continues to set the bar high and provide the design community with the essential tools to create superior projects. Sherwin Williams is commitment to supporting the design community, which is why they sponsor programs, like this one. They are also dedicated to a betterment philosophical approach which is why they selected ‘wellness” as the topic for this talk.Thank you Sherwin Williams for your tireless support.
In this timely conversation, experts from across interior design and sustainable living explore what it means to design for wellness in 2025. Moderated by Sue Wadden and Ashlynn Bourque of Sherwin-Williams, the panel features voices from:
Jeanne Chung (Cozy, Stylish, Chic) — known for crafting spaces that blend comfort, style, and emotional balance.
Julee Ireland (Julee Ireland Design Studio) — bringing a refined, intentional aesthetic rooted in longevity and livable elegance.
Greg Roth (CarbonShack) — spotlighting eco-conscious material sourcing, sustainable practices, and climate-aligned living environments.
Together they examine how interior design can be a catalyst for holistic living — from color palettes that promote calm and emotional balance, to spatial planning that supports aging in place, to circadian lighting and neurodiversity-friendly layouts. The discussion underscores a rising trend: residential interiors inspired by hospitality, wellness, and sustainability principles.
Listeners will come away with fresh ideas on turning their homes into future-proof sanctuaries — design-forward, earth-conscious, and emotionally attuned.
Health span-focused design: Designing spaces that help residents live longer, healthier lives at home.
Aging in place: Home layouts that accommodate long-term functionality and wellness.
Home gyms, saunas, cold plunges: Integrating spa-level wellness amenities in private residences.
Dual kitchens: Inspired by Italian family homes for multigenerational living.
Collaboration with architects: Designers as integral contributors to maximize natural light and spatial flow.
VR visualization: Helping clients experience proportion, scale, and sightlines before construction.
Problem-solving as designers: Addressing unforeseen construction issues creatively while maintaining aesthetics.
Circadian lighting: Lighting systems (e.g., Lutron Ketra) that mimic natural light patterns to support sleep and productivity.
The Accidental Empire: Marmol Radziner on Preservation, Prefab, and Fighting the Tyranny of the Nimby. Leo Marmol and Ron Radziner discuss the 36-year evolution of their design-build firm, tracing its roots in a student co-op to becoming a leader in modern residential architecture, restoration, and the urgent need for sustainable urban density in Los Angeles.
The conversation features Leo Marmol and Ron Radziner, co-founders of Marmol Radziner, detailing the firm’s history, their design philosophy, and their views on the current state of preservation and sustainability in LA.
Origin Story and The Return to Modernism:
The co-founders met as students at Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo, living in “The Ark,” a condemned co-op. This environment of free rein to alter the building foreshadowed their later design-build approach.
They founded their firm in 1989 during the “dying days of postmodernism,” quickly committing to the modernist ideal of clarity, reduction, and the connection between design and craft (Bauhaus).
They attribute the firm’s early success to aligning with the eventual return to California modernism, driven by its rich history in the region.
Milestone Projects and Preservation:
The first major flag-planting project was the Gutentag Studio (a small, pure concrete block and cedar studio), followed by the new Ward Residence.
Their watershed moment in preservation was the Kaufmann House restoration (1993) in Palm Springs. At the time, there was virtually no industry for modern restoration, forcing the firm to develop the roadmap for approaching these aging buildings.
They view restorations as “classrooms” that inform their new work, maintaining a healthy split of one-third restoration and two-thirds new construction.
Preservation Today: The Fetish vs. Functionality:
Marmol and Radziner argue they are often at odds with the preservation community because they believe historic properties must evolve to remain functional and relevant, cautioning against a “fetish” that prevents necessary change.
They criticize the current situation where every modern building is deemed “sacred,” citing the contentious, successful fight to demolish the Barry Building on San Vicente as an example of overreach where the building’s significance did not rise to the level requiring preservation.
The Problem of Scale (“McModerns”) and Efficiency:
They express concern over the proliferation of “McModerns” and elephantine houses, driven by high property values and the pressure to “max out the buildable area” on a site.
They emphasize that their modern perspective is less about style and more about the fundamental importance of connection—internal open plans and connecting the home to the landscape and exterior rhythm of nature (a concept that is lost when properties are overbuilt).
Sustainability and the Nimby Problem:
While California leads the country in robust, fire-resilient, and energy-efficient building codes (which have been a success), they gave the state’s housing policy an “F.”
Leo Marmol asserted that the greenest thing the city can do is densify and allow more housing in the urban core, calling out the NIMBY (Not In My Back Yard) mentality as the primary political failure that forces sprawl and long commutes.
The Return to Prefabrication (Prefab 2.0):
Marmol Radziner initially experimented with prefab from 2004–2012 but stopped after the 2008 crash.
They are now returning to prefabrication—Prefab 2.0—as a response to the current “crisis of construction costs” and the need for quick, affordable, and sustainable housing solutions, particularly for fire rebuilds in Altadena and the Palisades.
Design-Build Practice Scale:
The firm combines Architecture, Construction Services (design-build), Landscape Architecture, and Interior Design under one roof.
They support their construction services with their own dedicated cabinet shop and metal shop in El Segundo, allowing for control over craft and execution.
Fire Resilience and Landscape:
The fires are affecting landscape rules, particularly regarding Zone Zero (the 0–5 feet immediately surrounding the building). They argue against the extreme position of “no planting” in Zone Zero, believing the right, well-irrigated planting can help against embers, which they identify as the biggest culprit in mass fires, more so than direct flame.
Home hardening (sealing every vulnerability) is considered the single most important factor, with modern energy codes being an accidental but highly effective form of fire hardening.
The panel explored the intersection of natural and man-made materials in landscape design, highlighting the balance between aesthetic, sustainability, and functional concerns. Participants discussed how interior and landscape designers borrow nature to create cohesive environments, including outdoor “rooms” and hardscape features softened with plantings. Material selection — stone, metal, glass, composite decking, and synthetic turf — was debated, with attention to local sourcing, durability, environmental impact, and client expectations. The panel also emphasized the sensory experience of landscapes, touching on sight, sound, smell, and taste, and how design can evoke memory and emotion. Sustainability, fire safety, maintenance, and longevity were recurring themes, particularly in the adoption of synthetic materials that mimic natural ones while reducing environmental or upkeep costs.
Borrowed landscape: Using surrounding natural colors and textures to inform material choices in hardscape design.
Softening hardscape: Plantings and layered design to maintain depth without overwhelming the property.
Context-appropriate material selection: Stone, metal, glass, gravel, and concrete chosen according to environment, use, and climate.
Trend toward natural imperfection: Broken edges, less precision, biophilic design responding to a highly digital, precise world.
Sustainability tensions: Balancing natural and synthetic materials for longevity, cost, and environmental impact.
Synthetic decking and recycled composites: TimberTech and similar products for durability, low maintenance, and fire safety.
Artificial turf considerations: High-use areas, water savings, lifespan, recycling challenges.
Sensory-driven design: Sight, sound, smell, and taste incorporated into landscapes for holistic human experiences.
Childhood memory and emotional recall: Design that evokes personal sensory memory for users.
Fire and climate constraints: Materials must meet modern safety and insurance standards.
Rebuilding After the Fire: How Designers, Architects & Community Leaders Are Reimagining Livability in Southern California A panel of architects, designers, sustainability experts, and community advocates explore what the 2025 Palisades and Altadena fires taught us about resilience, materiality, community loss, rebuilding timelines, economic displacement, and the future of Southern California living. Moderated by Adam Hunter.
The 2025 Palisades and Altadena fires delivered a historic and deeply personal shock to Southern California communities, reshaping not only homes but expectations for safety, materiality, and resilience. In this WestEdge Wednesday conversation moderated by Adam Hunter, the panel digs into both the physical and emotional layers of rebuilding.
Architect Richard Manion contextualizes the fires as a “perfect storm”—a wind-driven event functioning like a flamethrower—requiring a more holistic approach to resilient construction. Sarah Malek Barney highlights the risks of long-standing industry shortcuts in material selection and emphasizes the renewed value of fire-resistant, performance-proven products. Marcella Oliver outlines actionable guidance from USGBC California and the Net Zero Accelerator, underscoring vetted building strategies and digital-twin modeling as essential tools for community education.
Stacy Munich brings forward the human consequences: underinsurance, temporary housing, and the emotional weight of rebuilding while navigating uncertainty. She explores prefab/precision-built housing as a potential solution for families priced out of traditional custom rebuilding. Todd Paolillo expands on the challenge of unifying a large number of well-intentioned contributors across agencies, nonprofits, and design sectors—and why true leadership must emerge to align them.
Education gaps for homeowners suddenly forced into complex architectural decisions
Economic realities shaping who can return and who is pushed out
Long rebuilding timelines and the risk of “enthusiasm fatigue,” as Adam Hunter notes
Avoiding both prefab monotony and hyper-luxury displacement in the Alphabet Streets
The panel collectively reinforces a core message: rebuilding isn’t simply architecture—it’s long-term community-making. And it requires every discipline to show up.
PARTICIPANTS & WEB LINKS
(Links provided to official homepages or primary professional sites)
It is very hard for me to believe it but the 2025 edition of WestEdge is almost here. This will be the 10th edition of the show and I am so excited to share the slate of talks taking place this year in the WestEdge Theater Presented By Pacific Sales! But, I’m not going to do it here because our time here is limited. But I have an idea.
I am going to link all of the programs and the times in the show notes. So, you can make your plans accordingly. Today on the show, you are going to hear from Megan Reilly, co-founder of WestEdge and my dear friend, Kim Gordon of Kim Gordon Designs. Kim is joined by Julia Demarco, who together designed the WestEdge Theater Presented by Pacific Sales. We talk about the inspiration that went into the theater design, the how and they why. You are going to love this.
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Before we get into it, I have something really special to share with you. Something special with a WestEdge connection. My friend, and longtime friend of the show Anthony Laney of Laney LA sent me a copy of the new monograph, Poetics of Home; Essays and Spaces by Laney LA. And so, I want to share a special installment of BOOKLOOK.
BookLook – Anthony Laney, Laney LA: Poetics of Home
Avialable from Oscar Riera Ojeda Publishers: Order Here.
“ Laney LA’s work embodies a distinctly Southern California spirit – the blur between indoors and out, the layering of experiences, the quiet merger of minimalism and sensuality. – Sam Lubell . This is from the foreword of Laney LA’s book, Poetics of Home. The book is available through Oscar Riera Ojeda Publishers.
Before I tell you about the book, let me tell you about my friend Anthony Laney. Laney and I first bonded on the show over a project of his in Manhattan Beach, home for me. This project had a disappearing pool, which was very cool, but it was’t the cool factor of a pool that disappeared below a functional outdoor space. It was the “why” behind its installment. The South Bay in Los Angeles is known for very expensive homes on very small lots. The underground pool is very cool but more than that, it represents something very special about Anthony and his namesake firm. This was a solution to a challenge. The client wanted this space and the home designed for the site. But they also wanted a yard for the family to enjoy the very unique exterior environment. Mark Twain said it best, “Buy land, they’re not making It anymore”. It takes a very special mind to craft something that literally makes more functional space on the same site.
If you want to understand the thought process and the ethos of this unique firm, Poetics of Home shows you what’s behind the walls, and under the deck. But Laney LA has another challenge. This was their debut monograph and just like a smash hit record, it will be very difficult to match or exceed. So, let’s focus on this one.
“Craft is where intention becomes tangible” – Anthony Laney
My favorite quote from the book because it is so simple and true. 6 words that succinctly define the motive. If you are anything like me, with regard to design and architecture, the story behind the design is equally important to form and function. Because the industry still speaks about architecture in terms of form and function. Yeah, it’ important. However, when you minimize something to simply how it looks and why it does, you can’t fully explore the intangibles. The way a space makes you feel. If you’ve never been to LA’s South Bay, you don’t know what Manhattan Beach smells like in August. Sunscreen and salt air, the scent of grilled meat and citrus. Or, what it sounds like during the Charlie Saikley 6-Man Beach Volleyball Tournament. Or, what it feels like in December during the fireworks show off the pier when 125,000 people descend on this small beach town. A special home in this place needs to be build to accommodate all of the senses. And it takes a very special architecture firm to understand how a client wants to live and then deliver a space for all the feels, sights, sounds, smells and yet, a shelter from the very same when desired.
This is the superpower behind Laney LA and Poetics of Home defines it, showcases it, explains it in text and imagery. If you are a true devotee of architecture, you need this masterpiece in your library if for no other reason, than to remind you of the true importance behind exceptional architecture. That it’s not how big it is, how expensive it was to construct, what celebrity lives there, what trade magazine put it on the cover, but instead, how it was crafted for an individual, a couple, a family… Ideated in a completely holistic manner. The joy in this book is endless, not physically, that ends on page 300 with a group photo. But the ideas endure far beyond that.Anthony, congratulations and well done.
Thank you, Megan, Kim and Julia for the time, conversation and partnership. Can’t wait to see you at WestEdge.
Thank you for listening. If you liked this episode, share it with a friend or colleague who loves design and architecture like you do, subscribe to Convo By Design wherever you get your podcasts. And continue the conversation on Instagram @convo x design with an “x”. Keep those emails coming with guest suggestions, show ideas and locations where you’d like to see the show. Convo by design at outlook.com.
Thank you to my partner sponsors, TimberTech, The AZEK Company, Pacific Sales, Best Buy, LOME-AI and Design Hardware for supporting the publication of over 650 episodes and over 3,000,000 streams, downloads and making Convo By Design the longest running podcast of its kind. These companies support the shelter industry so give them an opportunity on your next project. Thanks again for listening. Until next time, be well, stay focused and rise about the chaos. -CXD
Californians have perfected outdoor living, largely due to the favorable climate. As weather patterns change, the design industry has adapted with sustainable materials, inventive building practices and creative use of space including outdoor kitchens, theaters, plunge pools, functional landscapes, and unique approaches to sport courts. From pickleball to a pickle martini, design meets entertainment with the new innovations in outdoor design.
All of these programs took place in the WestEdge Theater presented by Pacific Sales Kitchen & Home. The stage was designed by Julie Beuerlein of JKB Home Design. This program was sponsored by TimberTech. A fantastic partner/ sponsor of Convo By Design.
As a busy professional designer, you know how important it is to find the right partnerships. Partnerships that allow you to specify the right products for every project. Professionals like you just don’t have time to waste. Let me tell you about one of my partnerships. Pacific Sales is here to serve you with expert, knowledgeable and non-commissioned professionals to help you specify the right product for all your projects. Non-commissioned. That means their only incentive is your satisfaction. Pacific Sales Kitchen & Home, a Best Buy Company has just that with over 60 years of service in Southern California. Pacific Sales is your destination for exploration, advice and inspiration. And here’s the cherry on top, access to exclusive Builder Trade Incentives from top brands like Monogram. Visit a Pacific Sales Showroom today to learn how you can unlock additional savings and benefits.Don’t miss out on the opportunity to work with the best of the best. Visit Pacific Sales Kitchen & Home today and elevate your projects to new heights!
At the highest level of design, the absolute best specifying designers, architects and landscape designers are all highly focused on the technology and performance of products and materials today. You have to because the products you specify for your projects have to perform and they have to last. That is one of the reasons why I am so proud to be working with TimberTech. Their focus on the technical renaissance of synthetic decking is literally changing the conversation about innovation and performance. It pulls focus on three priorities homeowners have and expect from the products their designers and architects specify for their luxury projects; 1. Aesthetics must match the overall design and fit visually. 2. Durability and maintenance. I’ve told you my board-flipping stories about my own wood decks. Clients not only want beauty, but they want ease of use and they want it to last for decades. 3. Sustainably made. Clients are more conscious of the environment and they want the same of their materials. TimberTech hits each one of these elements with a product that not only meets expectations, they exceed them. TimberTech makes a synthetic decking that looks just like wood, color and embossed wood grain for a natural appearance. Their composite decking is technologically superior as it has been created to last for decades, and it is manufactured with up to 85% recycled material. Their Advanced PVC Vintage and Landmark Collections have a Class A Flame Spread Rating making these products an amazing choice for wildfire prone areas, which unfortunately continues to grow on a risk-map. Check the show notes for more information about this and to find the nearest showroom or lumberyard. You can also check them out directly TimberTech.com.
What makes an architectural work worth saving from the bulldozer? The architect? The style? The age? A famous past resident? How are preservation decisions made when historical considerations are in conflict with the rights of the current owner? What is the responsibility of the city and what municipal rules/regulations help address such discussions? Join this conversation with industry insiders as we explore preservation and progress.
All of these programs took place in the WestEdge Theater presented by Pacific Sales Kitchen & Home. The stage was designed by Julie Beuerlein of JKB Home Design.
As a busy professional designer, you know how important it is to find the right partnerships. Partnerships that allow you to specify the right products for every project. Professionals like you just don’t have time to waste. Let me tell you about one of my partnerships. Pacific Sales is here to serve you with expert, knowledgeable and non-commissioned professionals to help you specify the right product for all your projects. Non-commissioned. That means their only incentive is your satisfaction. Pacific Sales Kitchen & Home, a Best Buy Company has just that with over 60 years of service in Southern California. Pacific Sales is your destination for exploration, advice and inspiration. And here’s the cherry on top, access to exclusive Builder Trade Incentives from top brands like Monogram. Visit a Pacific Sales Showroom today to learn how you can unlock additional savings and benefits.Don’t miss out on the opportunity to work with the best of the best. Visit Pacific Sales Kitchen & Home today and elevate your projects to new heights!
I’m Josh Cooperman and this is a special edition of Convo By Design featuring all of the programming from the 2024 edition of the WestEdge Design Fair. We call these entries WestEdge Wednesday, a programming concept that will allow those of you who either didn’t make it to the show this year or, those who made it and are taking me up on my promise to share It with them again on Convo By Design.
All of these programs were shared in the WestEdge Theater presented by Pacific Sales Kitchen and Home, a Best Buy company. On a stage designed by Julie Beuerlein of JKB Home Design. An amazing space that served as the backdrop for our conversations. Over the next 10 weeks, you are going to hear talks, panels and conversations from the show, so I wanted to open this up with a teaser, a sample of some of these conversations like this one.
As a busy professional designer, you know how important it is to find the right partnerships. Partnerships that allow you to specify the right products for every project. Professionals like you just don’t have time to waste. Let me tell you about one of my partnerships. Pacific Sales is here to serve you with expert, knowledgeable and non-commissioned professionals to help you specify the right product for all your projects. Non-commissioned. That means their only incentive is your satisfaction. Pacific Sales Kitchen & Home, a Best Buy Company has just that with over 60 years of service in Southern California. Pacific Sales is your destination for exploration, advice and inspiration. And here’s the cherry on top, access to exclusive Builder Trade Incentives from top brands like Monogram. Visit a Pacific Sales Showroom today to learn how you can unlock additional savings and benefits.Don’t miss out on the opportunity to work with the best of the best. Visit Pacific Sales Kitchen & Home today and elevate your projects to new heights!
The following panel discussion hosted by Sherwin-Williams, where they explore color and its many applications, from evoking emotion and enhances spaces, to creating balance that dramatic wow factor! Sherwin-Williams shares insight from their recently announced 2025 Color Capsule Collection, featuring not just one but nine hues as part of its color trend forecast. A panel of industry pros share practical insights on how to best incorporate these colors (and others), from bold statements to subtle accents. Whether you’re a design enthusiast or a professional, this conversation will equip you with the knowledge to stay ahead of the color curve and enhance your color potential!
Moderated by: Ashlynn Bourque, Sherwin-Williams and Ro Almira, Sherwin-Williams
Featuring: Breegan Jane, Breegan Jane; Kerrie Kelly, Kerrie Kelly Studio; Patrick Ediger, Patrick Ediger Interior Design; and Eddie Maestri, Maestri Studio
