The emotional impact of our surroundings, the challenges of a multi-year global project, and why the perfect kitchen starts with the “mother archetype.”
Elana Tenenbaum Cline, architecturally trained-interior designer with a fascinating background rooted in both structured discipline and creative layering came into the virtual studio to share her journey from attending Syracuse University’s intensive architecture program to working on massive global projects like the Abu Dhabi Airport.
The conversation explores the “practical creative” mindset, the importance of constraints in design, and the profound shift from large-scale architecture to the intimate human scale of interior design. Elana explains her philosophy that our surroundings completely impact how we perform and think, detailing how she uses personal narratives to craft spaces that truly resonate with her clients.
The Architectural Foundation: Elana discusses growing up with a structured father and a creative mother, and how her five-year architecture degree informs her complex interior renovations today.
The Emotional Connection: Why Elana pivoted to interior design to achieve a more intimate understanding of how people actually live—from how they serve coffee to their favorite childhood colors.
We talk about running and The “Suck” of the Marathon: A unique analogy comparing the phases of a design project to running a marathon, specifically the “mile 20” moment where clients might lose the vision just before the finish line.
Redefining Luxury: Why “luxury” in interior design might be as simple as a perfectly organized silverware drawer rather than just expensive materials.
The Performance of Space: Insights into commercial projects like the West River Surgery Center, where the design’s primary goal is to evoke a sense of ease and calm for patients.
Elements & Links
E: Explore Elana’s portfolio and the “all senses” approach to residential and commercial design.
Syracuse Architecture: Information on the intensive five-year program that shaped Elana’s professional background.
The Soul of a House: A recommended read on the emotional impact of interior spaces.
“I call myself a practical creative. I love being creative, but I love having constraints.”
“What is so beautiful about architecture and interior design is… how do you actually live in the space? How do you think?”
“I believe that our surroundings completely impact how we feel, how we perform, and how we think.”
“Architecture, depending on the scale… can go on for a long time. There is a pace with interiors that keeps me going.”
“Luxury in architecture is a material choice… luxury in interior design might be a silverware organizer in a drawer.”
“In an interior project, mile 20 is when you’ve done all the work… you’re almost there, and the client doesn’t see the vision yet because they can’t sit on it or touch it.”
“I try to use plain speak with clients… even the wealthiest clients all have budgets and want to manage them extremely carefully.”
“You finish a renovation… and they put a pink Dove soap pump from Walgreens on the counter. It’s like a knife to the heart.”
“People want to be outside as much as possible; they want to connect to nature as much as possible while still having access to power and shade.”
Innovation Under Pressure: Prefab, Modular, and the Future of Resilient Design Under Pressure. Architecture is evolving faster than ever, driven by natural disasters, technology, and client expectations—but how do designers balance innovation with risk, regulation, and lifestyle priorities? Josh Cooperman hosts an unfiltered conversation with Drew Davis, Brian Pinkett, Aaron Neubert, and Joseph Dangaran about prefabrication, modular construction, client programming, and the challenges of rebuilding communities in fire- and flood-prone regions. From the Palisades to Paris, they explore how architecture must adapt—or risk falling behind.
1. Introduction and Context
Host introduction: Josh Cooperman, Convo By Design.
Acknowledgements: Kim Gordon Designs (venue), Pacific Sales Kitchen & Home (sponsor and industry supporter).
Why the discussion matters: natural disasters as a case study in architecture’s evolving role.
Personal anecdote: Josh’s wildfire experience in 1983 highlighting the urgency of resilient design.
Architecture education is often romanticized as a pursuit of pure creativity, but in reality, it serves as a masterclass in grit. The studio environment, characterized by sleepless nights and public critiques, builds a specific kind of resilience necessary for navigating a risk-averse industry. While sectors like lighting have undergone rapid technological revolutions—moving from incandescent to LED in a decade—commercial construction moves at the speed of a massive vessel, slowed by liability concerns and ingrained methods.
This hesitation, however, is slowly giving way to data-driven sustainability. The industry has shifted from making purely economic arguments for energy efficiency to focusing on human health and wellness, a transition accelerated by the pandemic. Tools like the Healthy Materials Database now allow teams to bypass greenwashing, using empirical data to guide tradespeople who might otherwise resist new specifications. By framing material changes as collaborative problem-solving rather than top-down mandates, the industry can bridge the gap between high-concept design and practical application.
Nowhere is this practical application more evident than in the “Net Zero Trailer” project. Born from a desire to improve job site dignity and efficiency, this ten-week experiment successfully merged Passive House standards with trailer manufacturing. It proved that construction environments do not have to be uncomfortable energy hogs; they can be solar-powered hubs of productivity. This experiment serves as a microcosm for the industry’s broader challenge: how to scale innovation. Whether adapting to the massive energy demands of data centers or designing schools with a 100-year operational lifespan, the future of building requires looking beyond current codes. It demands a “green shoots” mentality where structures are designed not just for immediate occupancy, but for climate resilience and flexibility across generations.
The Hedgehog Concept: A framework from the book Good to Great focusing on the intersection of passion, talent, and economic engines.
USGBC & Healthy Materials: Susan discusses her work with the U.S. Green Building Council and managing a database of over 2,500 sustainable building products.
Climate Risk & 100-Year Buildings: The shift toward designing K-12 schools and community structures to withstand climate changes and serve communities for a century or more.
Thanks for listening to Convo By Design, 13 years, over 700 episodes and 3 million downloads and listens to the show!
The Phoenix Effect: Designers and Architects Lead the Innovative Rebuild of Fire-Impacted LA. An impassioned panel featuring William Hefner, Jamie Rummerfield, and Gwen Sukeena discusses architectural preservation, fire-resilient design, and community-driven efforts to shape a more thoughtful, resilient Los Angeles in the wake of the devastating wildfires.
The panel, moderated by Kelly Phillips Badal (Los Angeles Editor for Luxe Interiors and Design), focused on the challenges and innovative opportunities arising from the need to rebuild communities—specifically Altadena and the Palisades—after the recent devastating wildfires. The core themes were architectural preservation, fire-resilient building, and community collaboration.
The Power of Preservation and Moving Homes (Gwen Sukeena):
Interior designer Gwen Sukeena shared her deeply personal and compelling story of losing her own Altadena home to the fire and, determined to avoid building a “soulless” new structure, decided to save and move a 1910 Craftsman bungalow marked for demolition.
The process was grueling, taking less than three months and costing approximately $400,000 (including move, deconstruction, and foundation work), saving about one-third of the cost of a new build.
A significant finding revealed the house was originally built by the Milwaukee Building Company (later Meyer and Holler), known for iconic LA structures like Grauman’s Chinese Theater and the Egyptian Theater.
Regulatory Advantage: Moving a pre-existing home allows it to be considered a remodel, exempting it from current Title 24 energy codes, which saves costs but requires creative fireproofing solutions (e.g., underneath shingles).
Architectural Legacy and Community-Driven Guides (Jamie Rummerfield):
Designer Jamie Rummerfield, co-founder of Save Iconic Architecture (SIA), detailed the initial community response and the need to combat “soulless box” tract homes during the speedy rebuild phase.
In collaboration with the Design Leadership Network (DLN), SIA created a pattern language book called the Golden California Pattern Book.
This field guide documents and celebrates the distinct eras that shaped Southern California living (Spanish Revival, Colonial Revival, California Modern, Cali Card), serving as a free resource for the public to understand and reference authentic regional design.
The initiative launched recently at a town hall and is available online as The New California Classics.
Fire Resilience and Replicating Character (William Hefner):
Architect William Hefner (Studio William Hefner), a fifth-generation Californian, emphasized the goal of building fire-resilient structures that still maintain the character clients lost.
His firm contributed plans to Case Study 2.0, focusing on variety, constructability, and designing for fire resistance using modern materials.
Solutions involve deep dives into materiality, such as using fiberglass-reinforced concrete that mimics subtle wood texture without serving as kindling, and designing eaves that do not trap embers.
He detailed a client who, after losing their 20-year-old California Italian Mediterranean Revival house, insisted on rebuilding it exactly as it was, underscoring how architecture is key to identity and emotional recovery.
Concerns and Future Outlook:
Panelists expressed concern about the upcoming explosion of building activity leading to opportunism (“land grabs,” unchecked development) and a lack of mindfulness regarding neighborhood character and streetscapes.
The creative community’s response has been impressive, with architects and designers creating resources like the Foothill Catalog (in Altadena) and the New California Classics to provide high-quality, approachable options for rebuilding.
The panel explored the intersection of natural and man-made materials in landscape design, highlighting the balance between aesthetic, sustainability, and functional concerns. Participants discussed how interior and landscape designers borrow nature to create cohesive environments, including outdoor “rooms” and hardscape features softened with plantings. Material selection — stone, metal, glass, composite decking, and synthetic turf — was debated, with attention to local sourcing, durability, environmental impact, and client expectations. The panel also emphasized the sensory experience of landscapes, touching on sight, sound, smell, and taste, and how design can evoke memory and emotion. Sustainability, fire safety, maintenance, and longevity were recurring themes, particularly in the adoption of synthetic materials that mimic natural ones while reducing environmental or upkeep costs.
Borrowed landscape: Using surrounding natural colors and textures to inform material choices in hardscape design.
Softening hardscape: Plantings and layered design to maintain depth without overwhelming the property.
Context-appropriate material selection: Stone, metal, glass, gravel, and concrete chosen according to environment, use, and climate.
Trend toward natural imperfection: Broken edges, less precision, biophilic design responding to a highly digital, precise world.
Sustainability tensions: Balancing natural and synthetic materials for longevity, cost, and environmental impact.
Synthetic decking and recycled composites: TimberTech and similar products for durability, low maintenance, and fire safety.
Artificial turf considerations: High-use areas, water savings, lifespan, recycling challenges.
Sensory-driven design: Sight, sound, smell, and taste incorporated into landscapes for holistic human experiences.
Childhood memory and emotional recall: Design that evokes personal sensory memory for users.
Fire and climate constraints: Materials must meet modern safety and insurance standards.
Rebuilding After the Fire: How Designers, Architects & Community Leaders Are Reimagining Livability in Southern California A panel of architects, designers, sustainability experts, and community advocates explore what the 2025 Palisades and Altadena fires taught us about resilience, materiality, community loss, rebuilding timelines, economic displacement, and the future of Southern California living. Moderated by Adam Hunter.
The 2025 Palisades and Altadena fires delivered a historic and deeply personal shock to Southern California communities, reshaping not only homes but expectations for safety, materiality, and resilience. In this WestEdge Wednesday conversation moderated by Adam Hunter, the panel digs into both the physical and emotional layers of rebuilding.
Architect Richard Manion contextualizes the fires as a “perfect storm”—a wind-driven event functioning like a flamethrower—requiring a more holistic approach to resilient construction. Sarah Malek Barney highlights the risks of long-standing industry shortcuts in material selection and emphasizes the renewed value of fire-resistant, performance-proven products. Marcella Oliver outlines actionable guidance from USGBC California and the Net Zero Accelerator, underscoring vetted building strategies and digital-twin modeling as essential tools for community education.
Stacy Munich brings forward the human consequences: underinsurance, temporary housing, and the emotional weight of rebuilding while navigating uncertainty. She explores prefab/precision-built housing as a potential solution for families priced out of traditional custom rebuilding. Todd Paolillo expands on the challenge of unifying a large number of well-intentioned contributors across agencies, nonprofits, and design sectors—and why true leadership must emerge to align them.
Education gaps for homeowners suddenly forced into complex architectural decisions
Economic realities shaping who can return and who is pushed out
Long rebuilding timelines and the risk of “enthusiasm fatigue,” as Adam Hunter notes
Avoiding both prefab monotony and hyper-luxury displacement in the Alphabet Streets
The panel collectively reinforces a core message: rebuilding isn’t simply architecture—it’s long-term community-making. And it requires every discipline to show up.
PARTICIPANTS & WEB LINKS
(Links provided to official homepages or primary professional sites)
Late last year, I moderated an event hosted by Pacific Sales Kitchen & Home with the goal of breaking down kitchen desires and needs of todays well informed and demanding design clients. You would think this is an easy conversation to have. I assembled an all star cast of design and architecture talent for an incredible conversation. One that you might want to save and re-listen every now and then.
Late last year, I moderated an event hosted by Pacific Sales Kitchen & Home with the goal of breaking down kitchen desires and needs of todays well informed and demanding design clients. You would think this is an easy conversation to have. I assembled an all star cast of design and architecture talent for an incredible conversation. One that you might want to save and re-listen every now and then.
At Pacific Sales Kitchen & Home in Torrance, leading architects, designers, and industry specialists gathered to examine how pandemic-era shifts, rising client expectations, and rapid product innovation are reshaping the future of kitchens and baths. Their insights reveal an industry moving beyond trend talk toward highly personalized, wellness-driven, and performance-first design.
The kitchen is no longer just a workspace, and the primary bath is no longer just a retreat. Over the past five years, these rooms have become emotional anchors, wellness centers, hospitality zones, tech platforms, and reflections of how people believe they should live. At Pacific Sales Kitchen & Home in Torrance, a cross-section of the industry’s leading voices came together to discuss how the profession is adapting—and what clients now expect designers to deliver.
For Sayler Design Studio founder Beth Sayler (https://saylorstudio.com), the shift is rooted in emotion. After years of pandemic-related uncertainty, material shortages, and insurance-driven rebuilds, clients want spaces that feel personal, restorative, and meaningful. Her projects now lean into “experience design,” where primary suites might include refrigeration drawers, espresso stations, integrated audio, and hospitality-level details. Her biggest tool is expectation-setting—helping clients redefine what’s realistic, what’s essential, and what will ultimately make them feel at home again.
Architect Luis Escalera of LMD Architecture Studio (https://www.lmdarchitecturestudio.com) experiences the evolution through the lens of constraints. Small lots, stricter codes, and the ongoing battle between mandated electrification and client cooking preferences require tight onboarding, detailed questionnaires, and careful translation of desires to built form. The modern kitchen triangle now includes the deck, yard, and pool—one interconnected lifestyle zone that must function as a unified system.
For Jessica Nicastro Design (https://www.jessicanicastrodesign.com), the challenge is volatility. Pricing, tariffs, and supply chains remain inconsistent, making early builder involvement essential. Her firm works to recalibrate what clients think they want—often shaped by social media—into spaces appropriate to the home, lifestyle, and budget. Transparency and trust have become the designer’s most valuable currency.
At Laney LA (https://www.laney.la), designer Michelle Her sees a growing demand for wellness integration: whole-home RO systems, chromotherapy, therapeutic water pressure, and recovery spaces designed with the same rigor once reserved for kitchens. Their philosophy—“the best idea wins”—creates an environment where architecture, interiors, and engineering collaborate fluidly to support elevated living.
Representing the host venue, Pacific Sales Kitchen & Home (https://www.pacificsales.com) showcased the power of specialized knowledge. Trade leaders Verzine Hovasapyan and Juan Pantoja describe a client landscape with no single standard—making customization and education critical. Manufacturer immersion programs ensure staff can guide clients through increasingly complex appliances and smarter home ecosystems, offering a level of service no online retailer can match.
Designer Shanna Shryne of Shanna Shryne Design (https://www.shannashryne.com) emphasized lifestyle-first programming. Outdoor kitchens, in particular, require multi-disciplinary collaboration—interiors, landscape architecture, and systems integration—to achieve unified performance. Complexity, she argues, demands partnership rather than lone-wolf generalists.
Finally, RHG Architecture + Design founder Rachel Grachowski (https://www.rhgdesign.com) and Hudson Home Interior Design principal Shelly Hudson (https://www.hudsonhomeinteriors.com) highlighted biophilia, natural light, and personalized ergonomics as the next frontiers. From adjustable counter heights to dedicated recovery rooms, the home is becoming a hybrid of spa, laboratory, and living space.
Taken together, their perspectives reveal a profession not following trends but redefining standards—one kitchen, one bath, one wellness ecosystem at a time.
Design After Disruption: How We Live Now—and Why Process Matters More Than Ever
The pandemic didn’t just change where we work—it redefined how we live, gather, and experience our homes. In this episode, designers and industry experts explore how COVID accelerated shifts in lifestyle, technology, and client expectations, forcing a fundamental rethink of residential design. From wellness and personalization to process and trust, this conversation reveals why great design today begins long before materials are selected.
A wide-ranging conversation about how post-pandemic living reshaped residential design, why understanding behavior matters more than trends, and how slowing the process leads to better, more meaningful homes.
Today, we examine the profound shift in how people relate to their homes—and how designers have had to evolve in response. What began as a temporary adjustment during the pandemic became a lasting transformation: homes turned into offices, classrooms, social hubs, and sanctuaries, often all at once.
As a result, clients now arrive more informed, more opinionated, and more influenced by social media than ever before. But with that access comes confusion. The conversation explores how designers increasingly serve as educators and translators—helping clients filter inspiration, understand trade-offs, and make decisions rooted in how they actually live rather than how a space looks online.
The discussion moves beyond aesthetics into behavior: how families gather, how kitchens function, how storage works, and how subtle design decisions impact daily life. From kitchen planning and furniture layout to the psychology of comfort and the importance of workflow, the episode highlights why the smallest details often matter most.
A central theme emerges around process. Thoughtful design requires slowing down, asking better questions, and resisting the pressure for instant gratification. Whether it’s understanding how a family entertains, how they cook, or how they want to feel in their home, the best outcomes come from listening first—and designing second.
1. Life After COVID: A Permanent Shift
How the pandemic changed expectations around home design
The rise of multifunctional spaces
Why the home is now both personal and professional
2. Social Media’s Influence on Design Culture
The upside and downside of endless inspiration
Why clients arrive more informed—but often overwhelmed
Separating aspiration from practicality
3. Designing for Real Life
Understanding how people actually use their homes
Why square footage means nothing without function
Designing for habits, not hypotheticals
4. The Role of the Designer Has Changed
From decorator to strategist
Educating clients through experience and data
Acting as a guide through complex decisions
5. The Importance of the Kickoff Process
Why the first conversations matter most
Learning how clients live before proposing solutions
Creating clarity through dialogue, not questionnaires
6. Kitchens as Behavioral Maps
Storage, workflow, and daily rituals
Why drawers often matter more than appliances
Designing around how people actually cook and gather
7. Slowing the Process to Improve Outcomes
Resisting the urge for instant answers
Why design is both art and structured process
Helping clients avoid regret through thoughtful planning
8. Trust, Education & Long-Term Value
Helping clients understand what they don’t yet know
Using experience and precedent to guide decisions
Designing homes that evolve with the people in them
Great design isn’t about trends, finishes, or fast decisions—it’s about understanding people and tailoring functional design to their lifestyle. This episode reinforces a simple truth: when designers take the time to listen, observe, and educate, the result is not just a better-looking home, but one that truly supports the lives lived inside it.
Today, you are going to hear a deeply candid conversation with Phil Norman, principal of Norman Design Group, to explore the complex, often contradictory realities of luxury residential design. With over 25 years of experience crafting high-end interiors in Southern California, Phil brings both practical wisdom and an unfiltered perspective on the challenges designers face today. And part of exploring these ideas, is a willingness to be open and candid about the challenges as well as the solutions.
LOME-AI.com, simple, inexpensive, text to video harnessing the power of AI to grow your firm, beautifully.
Honesty About Budgets: The Ultimate Luxury
Phil dives headfirst into one of the most taboo topics in interior design: the budget. He explains why being forthright—even when the numbers are higher than a client expects—is not just necessary, but an act of professional integrity. He shares strategies for diffusing tension around cost conversations and how client trust is forged in transparency, not fantasy.
“People can handle a bigger number. They can’t handle being blindsided,” Phil says. “The danger is in pretending it can be done for less.”
Educating the Client: Battling Pinterest, Misinformation & HGTV
Phil reflects on the modern design client’s double-edged sword: unprecedented access to ideas… and a flood of misinformation. Whether it’s misconceptions about pricing, timelines, or what’s even possible, Phil sees part of his job as “un-educating” clients before re-grounding them in real-world processes.
He describes the delicate balance of respecting a client’s inspiration while also anchoring expectations in logistical and structural realities. “Everyone’s seen a Pinterest kitchen,” he says, “but that doesn’t mean it works in their space, or within their scope.”
Home as Sanctuary: A Pandemic Shift
Phil shares how the pandemic permanently shifted his clients’ priorities—from “how it looks” to “how it feels.” There’s now an increased desire for tactile comfort, flexibility, and timeless quality. The home is no longer just a showpiece—it’s a retreat, a workplace, a classroom, a safe space.
He emphasizes the growing importance of durability and livability over trends, noting that luxury now means emotional connection, not just expensive finishes.
“Design has to feel like home—not just like a magazine spread.”
Kitchen as Mission Control: Designing with Precision
Phil also explores how kitchens have evolved into the emotional and operational hubs of the home. With every family interaction, from weekday breakfasts to weekend entertaining, passing through this space, it’s no longer just about cabinetry and counters—it’s about lifestyle programming.
He discusses layout strategies, appliance coordination, lighting zones, and how technology and wellness are being layered into the modern kitchen environment.
Design Leadership: Advocacy, Not Subservience
Phil argues that successful design professionals must step into the role of advisor and advocate—not order-taker. He calls out the danger of defaulting to client appeasement and encourages designers to protect the integrity of the design process, even if it means challenging a client’s assumptions.
“We’re not there to just say yes. We’re there to guide—to lead with experience.”
This conversation isn’t just about design—it’s about leadership, trust, and emotional intelligence in a high-stakes creative business. Whether you’re a seasoned designer, a rising star in the field, or simply someone dreaming of building a home that feels like home, Phil Norman offers a masterclass in how to do it right—with candor, clarity, and craft.
Thank you, Phil. Amazing. Thank you for listening. If you liked this episode, share it with a friend who loves design, subscribe to Convo By Design wherever you get your podcasts. And continue the conversation on Instagram @convo x design with an “x”. Keep those emails coming with guest suggestions, show ideas and locations where you’d like to see the show.
Thank you to my partner sponsors, TimberTech, The AZEK Company, Pacific Sales, Best Buy, LOME-AI and Design Hardware. These companies support the shelter industry so give them an opportunity on your next project. Thanks again for listening. Until next time, be well, stay focused and rise about the chaos. -CXD
When I was growing up, radio was my solace. I loved it so much that I chose it for my career. I can remember being 10 years old with my transistor radio listening to 10Q and KHJ. Later, it was KLOS, KMET, KNAC and KROQ. The call letters were cool, the music and bands remain bookmarks in my life. I can pretty much tell you how old I was, where I was and what was going on by the songs. But my friends were the dj’s. Jeff Goner, Steve Downs, Bob Coburn, Rita Wilde, Dangerous Darren, Richard Blade, Rodney on the Rock. It was the people who told the stories about the music, the bands and what was happening behind the scenes. Many of us love design and architecture in the same way. And on that rare occasion when there is a combination of the two, well that’s special. And this months induction into the Convo By Design Icon Registry is one such individual. This person is truly special and I have had the good fortune to work with her on a number of occasions.
LOME-AI.com, simple, inexpensive, text to video harnessing the power of AI to grow your firm, beautifully.
Frances Anderton describes herself, “I tell stories and distill ideas about design, architecture and the cityscape of Los Angeles through print, broadcast media, exhibitions and public events.” All true, and she has the street crew to back that up. What Frances didn’t mention is that she herself is part of the zeitgeist of Los Angeles. Nor would she, that would be weird. But one of the most wonderful things about Frances is her willingness to get into a topic and chop it up, refine it, reorganize it and play with it until she has boiled it’s very essence into something consumable by anyone who with a modicum of interest. That is special.
To celebrate Frances and her induction into the Convo By Design Icon Registry, I want to reshare her moderating a panel conversation that aired on Convo By Design in 2015. Frances was a fixture for the 2-years that the West Hollywood Design District produced a wonderful event called DIEM, which stands for design intersects everything made. The programs were curated by Mallory Roberts Morgan, another remarkable LA gem of an individual. You don’t know this, but you will in a minute… Mallory and Frances were huge influences on me as I launched the show in 2013 and for the first few years. Quite simply, I wanted to make people think and question the way they did. To tap into curiosity the way they did. To come up with really interesting angles like Mallory and rip the niceties away so we could really chop it up the way Frances did and does. This panel from 2015 featured, Stephan Simpkowitz, Carolina Miranda and Steven Goldberg. As you listen to this conversation, notice a few things. First, the topic they were discussing a decade ago has since fully matured and blossomed as LA became the global art destination it always wanted to be. Notice too how Frances leverages the talents and skills of her guests in such an effortless way. Quite simply, due to the very nature of this topic, it could have gone a very different way. This conversation is as relevant today as it was then. And Frances is a treasure.
The Convo By Design Icon Registry is presented by Pacific Sales Kitchen and Home, a Best Buy Company and best friend to designers and architects everywhere. The business has become more complicated and Pacific Sales reverses that, find out how by checking the links in the show notes.
So there you go, our newly inducted icon and a fantastic conversation from 2015. Thank you Frances, for all you do and all you have given back.Thank you to my partner sponsors, Design Hardware, TimberTech and Pacific Sales Kitchen and Home, a Best Buy company and friend to specifiers near and far. Thanks for listening to Convo By Design. I couldn’t do this without you, wouldn’t want to. I hope this show help you stay motivated, inspired and focused so you can rise above the chaos. –Convo By Design
